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Can you tell us about your friendship with Yitzhak
Rabin?
We were both in the same Palmach [paramilitary
organization in pre-independence Israel]. But he was in a
different brigade; I was in the Negev brigade, he was in the
Jerusalem brigade. But you know, I keep very much to myself,
I never hang out with politicians. There was something big
inside of us. Actually, three days before he was killed, he
happened to be in the United States, and he invited me to
visit Mr. Clinton, but I was staying in New York.
That vaccuum cleaner is awfully loud.
Ah, it's the noise of life.
Tell us about your experiences as a soldier.
Well, I was in the army for much of my life between 18
and 35. In World War II, I volunteered for the British army,
in what later became the Jewish Brigade group in North
Africa. Later I was sent on a mission, with the Haganah
(underground army in pre-independence Israel) to Arab
countries, in the forties. I helped bring in immigrants,
illegal immigrants from Iraq and Egypt and smuggled them
into Palestine. That was my secret passion, yes?
How do your experiences as a soldier come into your
poetry?
Well, it made me start writing, when I was about
twenty-five. Before then I had never thought to write.
Was there a specific event that made you start?
Just the war and love, between eighteen and
twenty-five, you know? Those experiences, just to come to
terms with my life.
Where can we see politics in your poetry?
Well, it's all over. All good poetry is political, but
political poetry is bad poetry. You're part of history,
you're part of life, so you can't just avoid it. You can't
even write a love poem without things happening all around
you, and that's what politics is.
You said at your poetry reading that you think that
Zionism has come to be a bad word. Why?
I think that people don't like Jews to take their own
faith into their own hands. People love to bemoan the
victims of the Holocaust, but Zionism doesn't fit the
ideology that Jews have to be the constant martyr of
mankind. They don't like Jesus to fight back against
Pilatus.
Can you tell us about your recent trip to Poland?
As I told you, I belong to one of the very few families
in Israel in which all the tribe came to Palestine. That was
sixty years ago, so I grew up very normally, with
grandparents and all my uncles and all my cousins. Most
people of my generation grew up without grandparents or
uncles. I went with my wife [to Poland]. She wanted to see
the place where her parents came from. In Poland, the whole
impact of the Holocaust suddenly came upon me.
Have you written about it yet?
I don't write immediately about it. Either it comes or
it doesn't come. I don't go on trips to get inspiration.
How do you think Israeli literature has dealt with
the Holocaust?
Well, it hasn't changed. Some writers are survivors, so
they have written about it. But I don't think you can write
about it. It's literature, so it has no meaning at all. It's
just art, like painting or writing music. The only one who
was able to report, very cool like a scientist, was Primo
Levi. I don't believe in people wanting to express
something, either it comes or it doesn't come-like people
who like only natural grown apples. I think feelings and
reactions should be naturally drawn, not composed of
ingredients in a way that is shallow.
Which poets have most influenced you?
Well, mostly, of course our prayers, our medieval poets,
the Bible and European poets, and American poets like T.S.
Eliot and Auden. The only one I knew personally was W.H.
Auden. He was a very good friend. We met alot. I liked his
sense of humor and his involvement in politics without being
a political poet. I read a lot-when you start writing
poetry it's like a do-it-yourself thing. You think, 'I have
read many other things, so why don't I do it myself?'
Which of your poems is your favorite?
I do not have one. I have written many, many poems.
Each poem was right in its time. I don't live with my poems.
I don't read my poems except at public appearances.
What do you think about translations of your
works?
Well, as far as I can judge, and I can judge in a few
languages, I was very lucky in English. Many of my books
are in English translation. I think there are fifteen in
England and in America by various translators, and I can
understand somewhat in French, German and Arabic, but
otherwise, I've been translated into over thirty different
languages. I don't know Chinese and Japanese, or
Macedonian. Albanian was the last one.
Why have you never translated Hebrew poetry?
Well, because it's enough to say the things myself. In
order to translate you really need to live someone else's
life and body and soul and so, I have enough to live on my
own. I'm a very private person. I live with my family, I
don't live in the world of literature. I don't hang out in
literary cafes with painters and so on, and I don't hang out
with politicians. I keep very much to myself.
What's your writing process like?
Well, each poem has its own creative process. Some poems
I rewrite a lot of times and some poems I keep as they come.
Who is the first person who sees your poems after you
write them?
My publisher.
Not your wife?
No, I never show her. My family is very good with
it....again, it's a very private thing at home, and so I'm
very normal at home. I don't make a big fuss, "I have a new
poem!" like a hen who has laid an egg or something.
How has religion affected your writing?
I grew up with both spoken Hebrew and religious Hebrew.
For me they are one. I think it's the same in all languages.
Unless you are a rap singer and you use only street
language, there has to be a mixture of all.
What do you see as the possibilities for interaction
between Israeli and Palestinian poets?
I know some of them. I don't seek someone out because he
is a Palestinian poet. I'm not biased; I don't think that
they are better people than us and I don't think that we are
better people than them. A Palestinian for me is a human
being. So if he says he wants to kill me, I believe him. I
don't say, "Well, he's just a savage, so we have to give up,
we have to be rational and leave the irrational killing to
the Arabs; we have to forgive them. I'm totally non-racist.
Who says that we have to give up, we have to give and let
them kill us because we are more "elevated" people than they
are? It's the same racism as saying we are better than they
are.
Does a poet have a role in the development of the
modern Hebrew language?
I go with it; I don't try to influence it. I am a very
organic poet. I believe that poetry is a very private and
natural thing. If it doesn't come naturally, why should you
write poetry?
What is poetry?
Poetry is a personal way of expressing yourself in your
time.
Do you think that the poem has a job?
No. It doesn't have a job, but as much as I enjoy other
poets, people can enjoy me and use me to survive. I've
written a lot of love poems, and I know that a lot of young
people use my love poems on each other. I'm really very
proud of that. They ought to use me to comfort themselves
from death and war and other things. Maybe that's my only
role-to have my experience help others to overcome and to
enjoy.
As a poet, what do you think love is?
Love is doing things for others. It can be love between
a parent and children, it can be sexual love... But love is
a very big field, so a lot of things can be called love. It
depends what you call love. Love in the basic natural sense
is just to go on with mankind, to produce children and to
multiply. That's the only function of love.
Did you ever use the love poetry before you were
married?
Well, of course I did. Some people take advantage of
being tall or handsome, or intelligent, or powerful, or
rich, and so it's one of my gifts.
Have you always enjoyed publicly reading your
poems?
In Israel, poetry is very popular, but we don't have
many public appearances. It's mainly here in the U.S. and
in Europe. I enjoy myself because it's translated. A lot of
my poems have very personal things in them, but when I read
them in translation, I have a little more distance.
If you feel that your poetry is too personal to read,
how do you reconcile the fact that it is published?
Yes. It's a big fallout. It's physical in a way. You
might be ashamed to show parts of your body, your legs, or
your arms, but you say, why not? It is an exhibitionism, but
like an outstretched arm, it is a way to attract friendships
and reach out to other people.
Are you going to write forever?
I am 73!
You never thought about stopping?
Why should I think about stopping when I never thought
about starting? As long as I write, I write.
Abe Mezrich is a senior in Jonathan Edwards College.
Julie Weise, SY'00, is the head of the Urim v'Tumim
Production Team.
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